Season 2, Episode 4
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to Corporate Fuckery, the show that unpacks the cost of autopilot ambition and what it really takes to define success on your own terms. Today's guest embodies everything. This season stands for power with purpose, strategy with soul, and the courage to tell the truth about the systems that need to change.
She has scaled mission-driven companies across healthcare, FinTech, and higher education. She is a speaker who has taken the Stage at N-A-C-H-A-F-D-X Global Exchange and the 1870 ones future of Canna Tech Summit. She's an award-winning artist, a payments industry innovator, and a creator of the first ever payments pulse event.
Spotlighting leaders from GoFundMe, Walgreens, and Aero Pay. And in the last year, she's built a digital empire growing from zero to over 200,000 followers by redefining what it means. To lead with empathy, advocacy, and truth. And [00:01:00] she is proof that you can be operational and artistic, strategic and soulful, and still shake the system while you're in it.
Welcome Ms. Beverly Dines. Thank you
Beverly: so much for having me, Lauren. I'm so excited to chat with you. , It's always so funny listening too. Your bio back, but it honestly just gets me so excited about our conversation. 'cause we got lot. I saw
you glowing and I just, I wrote that with the intention that you could receive your powerhouse ness before we even started.
So here we go. Thank you. You're welcome. So for those that don't know Beverly, you just got a brief introduction, but she's a corporate truth teller too, and I have been drawn to her on. The interwebs now for a while. And I reached out when I was pulling this whole season together and I was like, Hey, I love what you do.
Would you be willing to hop on? And she was kind enough to say yes. But tell us, Beverly, what it means in your mind to be a powerhouse woman.
Beverly: Ugh, my gosh. So I think, you know what? Resonates the most [00:02:00] with that is removing all of the initial cliches that I think often wear down the ultra, hoorah around that type of title, right?
When you think of a powerhouse woman it, it, you often hear strength, you hear resiliency, you hear power, you hear. The ability to move forward through obstacles and all of those things are true. I also believe that a powerhouse woman is someone who is rooted in a sense of not losing their empathy, not losing their humanism.
While on the path to greatness, while on the path to being excellent. And I think for me, where you're able to successfully balance that line behind, , not losing yourself in , the game of trying to climb whatever ladders, , you find yourself climbing while also. Having a sense of radical accountability, owning a sense of , radical, , self-awareness and growth as you're doing the work.
, To me that represents true power because I [00:03:00] think we're all. Working towards, , especially if you are familiar with not only Lauren's content, but my own. You recognize the importance of the changing era of leadership. And to me, a big part of that change, a major element of that change is understanding that we can't leave our humanism at the door.
, And powerhouse women under not only understand that they embrace that, they welcome it, and see , those dynamics, those human experiences as strengths, not as. Weaknesses that will make you less palatable or less likable in the hiring process as a leader. So to me , those are some of the kind of the base level things outside of, like I said those otherwise cliches that you see at the conferences all the time about, no, it's about embracing all aspects of who we are as people, as women in this context and in celebrating our intersectionality while we do
yeah, I couldn't agree with you more and I think you totally spot on. Get what I am looking to achieve in this season, which are the lessons that we learned to, to help shed [00:04:00] light on what it meant to step into that perspective. Because I'm gonna just go ahead and guess. And I only bet on things when I know that I can win.
But I bet a dollar on this that you might not have learned this the easy way. Is that true?
Beverly: No. It can never be. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's the thing though is you hear often God tests the strongest soldiers or you hear, you, you only learn through falling forward or failing forward.
And I think I would agree with a lot of those elements. And I was just saying the other day to a close friend it would've been nice if I didn't have to crawl an inch every wave of my process, but I think it's such a, it's such a story for so many of us, right?
Especially when you're navigating a system that wasn't built for you. None of these systems were built for the vast majority of us. And so the fact that anybody who is watching this or listening. To our work, has found success, in their own way, despite the systems actively working against you.
I mean, it's just a further testament to that innate power that people have, that we often minimize, we often diminish [00:05:00] because it's hard. , And it was meant to be hard on purpose. It's, I'm. Glad to be here. And also, it's hey, it's further affirmation that things gotta change.
A hundred percent. So tell us about your climb, your pivot. What was a moment that you look back on where you're like, I thought I was doing all the right things. Yes. Because that's a lot of our storylines, right? Us powerhouse women who are here to. Make it, make impact. Leave it better than we found it.
Charge ahead. Be determined to have what we desire in this world. Yeah. We find ourselves up against a wall. Where was that wall or pivot point for you? So I think the biggest one, and I talk
Beverly: about this in my book, create the Door that kind of talks about how you know and educates on how you yourself can make these pivots too.
Is, when I graduated graduate school and I was one of, a small group of folks in my cohort who had gotten a job offer before graduation. I was feeling hot ish, really? I was like, had all these internships behind me. I felt really good. I was excited. And this role was in New York City.
I had, all of the [00:06:00] bells and whistles that you could ask for. , And. It honestly, within that year, everything fell apart. Not only my relationship at the time, I was incredibly isolated. The role wasn't what I thought it was. I was experiencing adversity where I was working. There was so much that was happening all at once.
And things that you know in that arrogance, right? Of myself being , oh, p like I've got it, right? Yeah. Woo. Life taught me and another one. And I looked up and after being hospitalized the second time with a panic attack lasting longer than 72 hours, because for those who don't know, I was an on-call responder for.
Many years on college campuses and there's no infrastructure, , or very little. When I was working in higher education on the res life side for navigating some of the traumatic and I mean truly traumatic things, I'd go from seeing a student who had just attempted to end their life to trying to talk to a student whose parent just passed away to, and all of this is without sleep.
All of this is, you're on call all the time, let alone fire alarms in your building and so on. And I know anybody who has worked in res life will resonate with that reality. So if you don't have the infrastructure [00:07:00] that you've built around yourself too. Process what you're experiencing. Plus again, the continued isolation.
Everything else, I mean, it all fell apart within a year and I found myself literally packing everything in my Jetta with my dad coming back. I'd only been there really a calendar year driving back to Chicago, disheveled, I'll never forget the look on my mom's face when I came in the door and she was just like.
What happened to her daughter? I mean, it really chewed me up , and spit me out that year. And I think a lot of it was because I had really thought, okay, I had followed the playbook, graduated college, went straight through graduate school, had the best job, had this, had the partner, had the, I'm in New York, I'm doing that.
And I had lost myself along the way for years and years and years. And hadn't even realized. That I had built a life and an infrastructure off of a thing that I felt validated on, that people kept telling me, you're good at this thing. You're good at X, Y, Z. And in a quest for that validation, continuing to pursue and [00:08:00] realizing, wait a minute, , none of these systems I've put around myself are working and everything went back down to base zero.
And so I wound up going through quite a significant. Journey of, course re course correcting on my mental health. Where did that kind of fall again, the fragmentation of having to deal with so much trauma and crisis response for many years. But then beyond that, , I got a divorce.
I was very young and so I'm also processing that. Then I also am switching careers again, and that's where I went from higher education. To healthcare and retail ops. I started working at a small, , a small clinic, and then also working part-time at a sports retailer because I was, I've been an athlete my entire life.
I, I love competition. I love sports, and I, at the time it was, I was working to pay off my divorce by myself. So when you talk about powerhouse women, how many of us have had to navigate, these extreme challenges where. I'm very fortunate and very privileged that I have the backing of my family.
I have the support of very dear friends, and I paid for that divorce my entire myself working two jobs. So as I'm doing that, I'm [00:09:00] literally looking at. Holy crap. Where did my, what happened in my life? But in doing so, it made me realize, how can I still maximize what I'm doing now to still achieve the trajectory that I want to?
For myself, I knew I wanted to be a COO by the time I was 30. That was always a goal that I had for myself. And then from there, continuing to help people, heal people through meaningful work, servant leadership is really important to me. And I said, okay, use this?
And when I pivoted to working full time at that retailer, right? I asked, I said, do you guys have operations, leadership roles? They're like, actually, yes, we need a front end lead. And that kind of got me spinning on, okay, these, what could be perceived as failings, because, I'm sorry, who would not be embarrassed to , tell their friends , I just got this hot shot job in New York.
Didn't work out. I'm back home.
I don't know if you felt shame, like I don't. Oh my gosh. But I thought I had shit. The bed of life, seriously. There is nothing more for me. I do not know how I'm gonna, oh my gosh, do this. And , where am I gonna go from here? It sounds like you were able to at least [00:10:00] pull yourself up by the bootstraps.
Yeah. And 'cause you wanted that COO role, but , the shame that comes with feeling like you failed at something that A, wasn't built for you and B, you didn't actually know about, you were not educated in how it works. You were just trying to make it work from the perspective that you had. Is mind blowing if you think about it.
Beverly: It is. And I think I, I love that you mentioned shame because I will say, the first several months back home, decompressing from the situation. There was a, there was, I mean I just had this wedding and I, yeah, just, yeah, I've taught, I'm doing all these announcements 'cause it's the era too.
I don't know, a lot of people do it now where it's the announcement era of on LinkedIn and so excited and Facebook at the time. I'm so excited to announce that I've got this, I've let all these folks know. And I think there comes a point where when we think about powerhouse women.
You, you don't those voices start to matter less and less. And I think that was the beginning of me realizing, what was I doing all of that for? Was I doing that for me or was I doing that for the presentation of how it would look to be, I got the ring, I got the job, I got the well [00:11:00] za, great, but also it wound up actually not even being for my best good.
And or honestly the folks around me, because I wasn't actually in my. Operating from my best sell. Absolutely I felt that. But I very quickly shifted to, and I've always been this way, I give major credit to my parents because my mom has always said, I don't care if you are.
A a garbage person. Be the best, own several garbage units, be the best garbage you. And so I've always had that spirit of, you know what, I'm gonna work at the sports retailer, but I'm gonna climb my way up. And there was actually a period where they were like, Hey, have you considered working at corporate level for us at this?
Because I was making the most of that. And I think the overarching kind of motif in that is that really set the tone for me to go, okay. There are, there's more than one pathway for me to be able to get to where I want to go, and I don't have to take a prescribed pathway just because everyone else has done it.
And that's where I went from real retail ops to then healthcare, again, working my way to being a practice manager coordinator, and then transitioning to FinTech, working my way and then transitioning it. And I was a COO by the time I [00:12:00] was 30. And so being able to sit with that at 30, being , whoa.
I did it. But looking back at my trajectory, I've had people in interviews directly to my face say, on paper, your experience does not entirely make sense. Yeah. But the way in which you've communicated the storytelling. Yeah. Is It all does. And that's why I'm so passionate about teaching.
Others how to do this because it's all about relevance. It's all about applicability and embracing your own storytelling. That's the real power. Otherwise, other people are writing your story for you.
That's right. And it's funny because it sounds we had very similar experiences just in trying to traverse.
Industry. So I had a very similar experience trying to move into Nordstrom. I wanted to work there. I used to walk up the street to go shopping in the shoe department multiple times a week. When I worked in the business district down in Seattle, I was working in biotech at the time.
And the guys in the shoe department, they knew my friend and I, they were like, oh, you girls are back. So cute. I was , I wanna work here. What does it take to work [00:13:00] here? So I ended up meeting. The EVP of HR in a parenting group, because I had to sign up for a parenting group when I had a baby.
'cause I was , I don't know anything about raising kids and I have no friends that have kids. So I sat next to her, we kicked off this whole relationship, and she's Lauren, like your skillset does not match your skillset, doesn't match what we're looking anything. And she didn't say it brutally , but generally it was , good luck as the EVP of talent management.
I'm telling you, you're not a fit. And so fast forward. Declan was two maybe three. When I got my job at Nordstrom, I walked in as a program manager within the operation space. Yeah. And ultimately got a promotion every 18 months. This was the trajectory though. This was the seduction of success that I was like, oh my God.
Not only did. I overcome what somebody told me I couldn't do. But then I had such massive success to sit in rooms with executives and fly on private jets and have this whole persona that was grandiose and delicious. [00:14:00] And it just felt like a house of cards. Just felt like I had built on a foundation that cost me so much more than my soul was willing to give anymore.
And that was the unwinding of yours, truly. And what
Beverly: best I was gonna say, what was the driver that attracted you? 'cause I think that's the other thing too, is we don't even know until we're swept up in it. Where the buttons are that push us to continue to chase after the dragon.
For me at least, it was the validation and I realized because of my own experience from a very young age, experiencing. , A lot of different things growing up. Seeking that validation actually wound up being the catalyst for me to continue to Feed the Beast because I'm like, oh, wow, I'm being recognized for me burning myself out.
I'm being recognized for over exerting myself. I'm being recognized for. Being available at 2:00 AM for things I should not be available
for. Yeah. Getting yelled at over slack by your SVP at 1:00 AM for not having a PowerPoint ready for 8:00 AM it's I'm sorry. , i'm asleep right now. And
Beverly: then, and the continued, validation of , oh, they gave me a [00:15:00] promotion, or Oh, I'm being, so it, for me that became that vicious cycle. What was that for you?
So it's funny and I'm so glad 'cause I'm gonna turn and ask you the same question back in a hot. For me, my therapist was like, Lauren, you are so seduced by what success and financial security looks like for you, that you are willing to chase whatever it takes.
And I was so insulted when she said that to me. I and I love her. I've been with her for a bit now, but I was like, what do you mean? What do? And I started thinking about it and truly my last six years of putting myself back together and creating this version of myself. She was right.
I had a lot of financial instability growing up as a kid. I, my parents went bankrupt. We lost our house. We went through some major stuff as a family and corporate America gave me a sense of stability, consistency, financially, and a sense that, as an overachiever, I could overachieve and solidify my ability to take really good care of myself and my [00:16:00] family.
Beverly: Oh my gosh.
But what about you?
Beverly: For me it was. Going back to validation, I was bullied from a very young age. Some of my earliest memories are, me being five years old and having the police at our house because I had been, kicked off the bus, down the stairs, off the bus by a routine bully.
And that was unfortunately one of the least of the things that kid did. , And others, from the ages of five to really 15. And I think for me a lot of it came from just a belonging, wanting to be like just to belong truly. Because I've, I very much have prided myself on, intentionality throughout my life and wanting to ensure alignment, wanting to give back, service, all of these things.
And at the root of a lot of my behaviors when looking back, especially during that crumble period where I'm looking back at my whole life, right? And I'm like, where is. And I will say even from that year of realization, it still was many years later, where even now, especially in this new era of me being a creator and still, being A-A-C-O-O for, fractionally for other organizations in the background.
I'm still [00:17:00] unpacking that. But I think for me it was, wow, when I am achieving, when I am excelling, when I am helping move the ball forward, I belong. And I'm an and I am being told I belong and I'm being told that I'm valued and I'm being told that my work has value. And when those moments would happen where I would feel I'm pushing, I'm still doing, what was the status quo.
At the time where I'm being told, you're, we love what you're doing da, and the validation isn't coming. More, more, more importantly, those reiterations of being seen being, I wanted to be seen and felt like that work was being seen. That is when the facade would start to fall away from me.
And I'd go, oh, shoot. Okay, there's only one or two options. Either I leave, but if I leave, I was feeling celebrated here. I was feeling loved here. And belonging is I mean, who doesn't wanna feel like they belong anywhere? A
hundred percent.
Beverly: But then if I move on now, I have to start, , from the ground up again.
And so this, there was, I always say that, , in my career, , I've always left organizations probably three months after. I should have same. I've always known, right? I've always known , [00:18:00] okay, I think the time is up, but there's that part of you that's you almost mourn. The good things and you mourn the comfort that those spaces can give you have provided you, you mentioned, stability.
I think that's for a lot of people right now who are struggling in the hiring market or in their roles in general. There's this term called job hugging that I was introduced to recently that just. To me is so indicative of that, that scarcity mindset, that fear-based mindset of I'm hugging this job that is torturous and making me struggle and making me, but if I leave or if I go out in the market, which everyone is saying is terrible, right?
Which, what will happen to me? What will happen to that stability? And for someone like me, I'm like, dang it. I finally built up the social capital. Here I belong. People are excited with me. They celebrate with me, they collaborate with me. If I, now I have to pivot and do this all over again.
So I think for me it was that, that deep, wanting to belong. But in understanding that what it really boiled down to now and where I've come to and my process is it's not a one way belonging system. It's not just me belonging and fitting and molding [00:19:00] myself into what helps you feel like I belong.
Because as a Libra listen, we mold,
what is your season? When is your birthday?
Beverly: Sunday
birthday. Thank you. Wow. That's amazing. Happy. What's your moon sign?
Beverly: , Your Virgo.
Oh, very structured, very organized. Yeah. Fresh. Look at all the things you'd be great at operations with. It's crazy
Beverly: how that all works out.
And I'm a Sag rising, so
Oh, so she likes to bring the fun. Yeah. The more fun the better.
Beverly: Yes. So and so for me, as I have. And going back to that survivalism, I had molded myself from a very young age to fit into the rooms that I needed to be in and mold myself into belonging in those spaces.
Now, in this era, I'm like, oh no. I wanna present myself as Beverly in every space I'm in, so that I know right away if I don't belong here. Not me making you all feel comfortable with me, molding myself into the version of me that you like best. And that took. The dismantling [00:20:00] of the deep rooted understanding of why I was actually positioning myself in the spaces the way that I was to be able to come to this place now.
I used to call it Gumby myself. I know that I'm dating myself by using Gumby. Yeah. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. But yes, , I would just contort myself into whatever position needed, and that was the trauma response of. How I was raised and what I've been through, and also my desire to just continue to create acceptance and validation from people that honestly, I probably didn't need validation from.
Beverly: And that's the tough part, right? One of the best quotes that I have heard as of recent that I really have sat with right, is do not accept feedback from folks you would never ask advice from.
So true.
Beverly: And that really, I heard that in the last year and I went, Ooh. Because when I would get, sometimes, especially mid-career, mid-management career, as I was really rising as a senior leader.
I would receive constructive feedback, it wasn't just. Oh, okay, great. It was a gut [00:21:00] punch every time I'm like, oh gosh. And I would take it home with me, because I care so much about what I do and because I care so much about my commitment to growth and that reframe of would I ask advice from this person in general?
Not that you shouldn't grow and not that you shouldn't care, but. No, I wouldn't actually. So
yeah, it's giving it a value scale of yes, how much percentage of this should I actually take? What is valuable for me to use and take forward? And what is not at all.
Exactly. And I had the same thing. I had one of the worst reviews in my life at Microsoft last year. And it came out of nowhere. My manager did not have the decency to even tell me that it was coming. So this is where corporate fuckery, I know runs pervasive. But a lot of the leaders that we work with,
we feel like we have to take and mold ourself into their image of what they think. And I remember at some point being , I'm pretty sure you want me to just be a robot. She was commenting on my facial expressions and , that sort of thing. That sort of, gosh. Which was yes, I may have [00:22:00] made an off face , on teams one day There.
There was a reason and it was seven o'clock in the morning on my first, I'm not trying to excuse myself, but I'm just saying like we're very sensitive to how we perceive people and their body language and all of that. Instead of making it something that's actually of value in it. Hey, what was going on for you?
Oh my, what was going on when I made that face of trying not to lose my shit at seven 15 on the morning was you were shutting me down in front of all my peers. Would've been helpful for her to have that contact. But, oh my gosh, if I had, it was more
Beverly: about my face. No. And I think it's, it goes back to the policing, and I think especially as, a intersectional, woman, there's even more context too with the microaggressions and the other things too, where you're continuing to mold yourself and mold yourself until you really look up and you're like, okay, I go in and I'm so starkly different from who I am in my day-to-day life when I go into, and that actually is where that shift started for me when I headed into the FinTech space because I realized, you know what it [00:23:00] actually is.
I need to start reclaiming who Beverly is in all contexts Now, because as a professional, because the more that I had molded myself to the point about facial expressions, literally when I worked in healthcare, I had a sidebar conversation very similarly about. You would've thought that I had literally done, honestly, one of the, worst things in the company history, ever murder
with your eyeballs?
Oh my gosh. How serious this was. And it
Beverly: was, and it was truly, Beverly, sometimes when you make faces, it's just really uncomfortable for people around. And I said , okay you make faces. We all make faces. Why mine specifically?
I actually feel like it's people's trauma response that they can't handle other people's.
Perception, their perceived perception of your disappointment is what actually Oh, course
Beverly: is
coming up
Beverly: for that. Of course, because it goes, I mean, it, it totally counters against the status quo, right? Everyone is expected to, you nod out long and whatever. But I think in that same context I had, and I shared this on my TikTok and Instagram recently, I, at the same company within the span [00:24:00] of a year, I had lost.
One of my dearest cousins to lung disease and then I think it was six months later, if not shorter, a dear friend of mine ended her own life or died suddenly. , It's still nebulous, but either way it was both tragedy within a very short period of time. And I come into work. Typically I'm very jovial.
I'm very high energy, how people know of me, and the zeitgeist. I'm very, and I pride myself on that. And having the zeal. But, obviously like anyone, experiencing such, this, my cousin really was such a aunt like figure for me. And, watching her slowly pass was just, it was just really tragic.
But then having a friend die very suddenly and very, having recently spoken to her, it was just so much. And I'll never forget in my performance review going back to that, ery of the whole thing where I got a meets expectations on culture and enthusiasm. And this is coming now.
I was somebody who had paid out of pocket for all, almost the majority of our , staff engagement activities. Going to the, I remember going to the Barnes and Noble to their cheap section with all the games [00:25:00] and stuff making movie night packs for raffles and all kinds of, , truly above and fing beyond.
Constantly thumbs up. Even after being in a car accident and still smiling and having a coworker of mine literally say, what are you doing here? Why are you here? I have to be here for the team. I was delusional with a fractured thumb and sprained neck and sprain. Three days after the accident, it was crazy work.
I sit in that meeting. And she said sometimes when you're at work you're really, you're really up. And sometimes there's been a couple times this year when you've just been really down and it just, I've told you before how important it is to leave things at the door and how important it is to just maintain that level of professionalism.
And it just, you're not just sad. You're just really down and you won't say anything in a meeting or you'll just be very quiet. And I said, you mean the times where I've lost people close to me and was unable to. Perform,
Function, not even perform function. Let's just talk about functioning because that's really, as someone who is newly acquainted to what, real deep grief is with two deaths [00:26:00] in four months in my family, I'm like, ma'am, I cannot, with people who can't give people credit, some grace for some grief.
I mean, come on.
Beverly: I mean, it was it, and I'm I just, and I remember sitting there and going. And she goes would you disagree that you meet you, you think you exceed expectations? And I just, I couldn't even believe it. I said, and I really start, I started telling all the things I had done all that year, all of the initiatives I had done, everything that I had done above the college.
I mean hosting parties, all kinds of stuff for, not hosting me personally, but. Cur curating these opportunities for community connection at the company. And I just , couldn't believe what I was hearing. And she goes now that you've shared it that way, I think you're right. We can bump that up.
'cause you're right, you have been really putting in a lot of work, almost she was giving it to me , , you're right. And, , thank so much to
the gift that
Beverly: To myself, but the betrayal of it all, right? Yes. Wasn't that I thought to myself, screw this, screw them it's time for me to pivot.
The thought I had to myself was.
Maybe I just need to work harder.
Maybe I just need
Beverly: to do a better job of being conscious. Maybe she's right. Maybe I need to be keeping these things at the door. And [00:27:00] I immediately went to self blame. Immediately went to self because again, that validation, right? I mean, everything I've been doing all over the, and
this is how you know I'm being treated. It did a number and I think about that because for so many of us, I love that you said just surviving, right? Just existing. Yes. I think the vast majority of people, especially in my community, are genuinely, we're surviving and we're trying to find each other and we can't because of these systems that have really, they're antiquated.
Yes. I mean there's the people who are facilitating these systems are facilitating and antiquated. A theme that isn't even being perpetuated anymore because the people who generated them are dead. They're gone. Yeah. And so we have an opportunity to be able to be different and be able to say, you know what?
, How do we show up for the people who, if maybe if , our staff who are normally very jovial, very exuberant, very, they're suddenly incredibly di maybe that's a call for us to say, Hey, you've shown up for us being the light in the room, being the light in the office, being that person who's positive.
How can we [00:28:00] show up for you? And people don't forget those experiences. I have . Not just a hundred
percent. Yeah. I was talking about the golden rule on threads yesterday because , I need y'all to know. PSA, the golden rule is not about being a good girl, a good boy, good person. It's about an energetic exchange.
Yes. And those little efforts that are, Hey, I heard you're going through some stuff. Hey, I heard you lost someone. Hey, I heard you're going through a tough time. That is what brings our humanity back into the space that is not human. And there's a lot, . Even sending cards or flowers, even having holiday parties.
Even , any little thing that I think we've both been in corporate long enough to know that 10 years ago there was a much different support system in corporate life. In many of my experiences where the company or someone in the company was a representative to
smooth some of those edges, and I don't know about you, but I don't see any of those edges being smoothed.
Beverly: No, I think it's absolutely, you used to have company representatives who would [00:29:00] show up to the funerals. And the wakes and the Shivas and , there were, there absolutely was that.
But I think the difficulty, and I was just explaining this to my community on live recently, is there's this dissonance, I believe between, again, leaders who are using antiquated, systems that, over time all of the infrastructural elements that compelled people to want to have the loyalty.
Yes. That you are expecting of your, employees have slowly been whittled away, down to scraps or non-existent, and yet the confusion on that side is why aren't people loyal anymore? Why aren't people bought in? Why are people quiet quitting? Why are people frustrated? Why are people job popping?
Why aren't people committed or hungry, or whatever the case. When a reality, like you said, there used to be a golden watch at the end of the day. Yes. And we could retire. You could retire knowing you were set for life. Pensions existed. PTO was comfortable. There was a, there were systems in place to empower your employees and down to, like you said, the sentimentality.
I'll [00:30:00] never forget when I was working. In FinTech I had experienced,, I've had COVID o eight times Oh dear. Yeah. Worked at working in healthcare, during, and then around towards the end part of the pandemic, that'll do that for you. And unfortunately, I wound up having a, petite aneurysm, when I was working in FinTech.
And I had to leave, go to the hospitals, this whole thing. And, I will never forget as long as I live,, I just gotten outta the hospital after being at, Northwestern overnight and trying to figure out what was going on. And I get a call from the CEO of the company I worked for and, I didn't answer 'cause I just found out you have a petite aneurysm.
And, , we hear a knock at the door and we go to the door and. It it's like the door opens and there's my, my, the CEO of the company and his wife. What? And he said, Beverly, are you okay? We just want, I know we don't mean to , jump on you. We know you're at home, but we wanna make sure you, 'cause it was a startup, so we were an intimate team.
He said, I just wanna make sure you're okay. They had brought flowers, they had brought, edible arrangements and. [00:31:00] I remember standing back, and genuinely, and my now husband was out the door and he was like. Oh my God. We didn't even know how to react because it was or you could tell he was genuinely and her, genuinely concerned for me, and they have this beautiful arrangement and they were knocking on doors trying to figure out, they couldn't, they didn't know which apartment number I was in.
They're like, we've met all your neighbors. Door number eight.
Beverly: And it was so earnest and I remember standing there being like, listen, take the time you need. Don't worry. Your job is here. We wanted to come and tell you. Do not worry about that.
You are part of this family, you're part of this community. Whatever you need, we've got you. And I have chills talking about it again because it was so coming from the companies I had been beforehand,
right?
Beverly: It was such a beautiful display of humanism that I had never experienced before at that level.
Consistently. I had other leaders who have shown up for me and done similar things, but to, for a CEO or the company to show up to me. Yeah. It doesn't matter if it's a startup or not. And I think to your point earlier. I from then on [00:32:00] and honestly in different parts, of course, throughout my career, but really utilize my time at that organization to zero in on, okay, what's the type of COO I'm gonna be?
Who am I gonna continue to facilitate these systems? Or am I gonna walk in this truth of yes, this is the humanism everyone deserves. And so I was the person at the company who. I always would say from hr, but they knew it was me. Okay. Team. And, but they always knew it was me. I would be sending cards to people's houses or flowers when they had a pet that passed away or somebody passed away, or even a celebration when they had a wedding or when there was, because this is the future of leadership.
This is how people deserve to be shown up for and seen. And it's, it takes two sec. I had a literal what is it? A 1-800-FLOWERS. It takes two seconds to set up an account. It takes two seconds to be thoughtful, and if leadership is doing it, if leadership's owning it, then that means that it becomes a part of the actual culture instead of these core values.
You say, but don't walk. That's my passion is. Living in truth in action. And that's what employees want to see. They don't, they're tired [00:33:00] of the pizza parties. They're exhausted by the happy hours. It, they're, yeah.
Nobody needs pizza at work anymore. Let's just give us,
Beverly: give us maternity leave that's longer than two weeks.
It's. Being thoughtful and intentional.
Yeah. So you know, every episode that I do on this pod is about a lesson and how people can listen to us talk about very real topics and walk away with something that actually can make a change. , This is how I create the ripple effect.
This is how I pay it forward. So I wanna know from you, and I feel, I don't know why I feel like asking this, but I'm trusting my gut here. I feel like they're in your little crumble period. In your rebuild. In what we talked about today, there was maybe some unconventional ways that you put yourself back together.
Is that true? Yes. Welcome to my intuition. It is, oh my gosh, on fire. Tell the people because here's what I also know. 'cause it was really true for me too, right? I never trusted my intuition. I told her to shut up so many times in corporate life because she always wanted me to do [00:34:00] the right thing for myself.
And I always was like, what do you mean I shouldn't be up working until, the wee hours of the morning and up at five o'clock to go to the gym? I had to go through, some woowoo stuff to, to get here. So if you're up for sharing. Yes. And I know that this maybe seems a little different of a thread to go down, but I feel like the people listening to this are looking for answers in standard places.
And the answers, I feel like both of us found in some part, did not come from a classical approach to healing. Yes. Oh my gosh, I love this question.
Beverly: Anyone who knows me personally is probably gonna anticipate what I'm gonna say. I found it through karaoke and I wanna break down how this happened.
So I, was, while I was a pre-med major through and then bio major Bachelor's of Science, I was also a theater of minor, a theater minor. Always been a performer. I'm very blessed to be an award-winning actor and in a lot of different. Areas. And so performance and really the community of performance in theater and music has just, I'm a 15 year plus classical [00:35:00] violinist.
I love music. I love art. And it happened during the pandemic where, virtually, stumbled upon some virtual karaoke nights that were happening and the pandemic. And then once things started opening up again my, now husband moved here to Chicago and we, it was, Memorial Day weekend.
It was pretty dead still 'cause folks were still slowly opening up and we found this karaoke spot that now we, we love them. They love us, we're the owners, we're all besties. And. We stumbled in there and we were just having a really tough day after work, the both of us, and there was nobody in the bar exuding, like the owners and some of the regular bartenders.
And we go up on this stage and we're just singing all night. We're singing and singing. And then that turned into once a week. And then twice a week. And by 2024, was bringing coworkers, I was bringing friends, I was bringing people on my kickball league. I was bringing associates. I went to a conference in Dallas.
I'll never forget this. I went to a conference in Dallas where I was presenting, and we were at one of the, at one of the events at the conference had planned, and folks, I could tell were still hungry for something after the [00:36:00] event, right? And I just sat in front of this group of, these are Fortune 500 banking, SVP C-Suite.
I said, how would anyone feel about karaoke? And these mostly men were like. Can we do that? Can we go, can we do that? And I said, yeah, if somebody wants to get some Uber xls, I already found the place, we can go and a group of us piled into two to three Uber xls and went to karaoke where we sang and had a amazing time all night.
And again, I'm standing next to somebody from Visa. I'm standing next to somebody from, I mean, big companies. And it became a thing where at these organizations, I worked for, I know what we could do after our event. I know what we could do after.
And they're like, okay, Bev, we're gonna go to karaoke. But one of the most beautiful things to me about karaoke and why I'm so passionate about it are really I'll say three things. One, for me as a performer who did not feel up until very recently that I'd have that outlet again, where I'd be able to perform again.
Because in corporate you are fit in this box. You were told once you choose this pathway and essay, you don't get to, you don't get to be on Broadway. You don't get to do anything else. Fight for where those opportunities are., And it [00:37:00] wasn't until later I started auditioning and winding up being cast in shows again.
So I even there, I broke that. But having that space to just release, I mean, belting and releasing in the music and play, it doesn't matter if you sound great or not, just releasing. Is so healing. Two, the act of community inclusion. There's something about bringing people into this space and, so many of us and people who are listening are like, I'll, you'll never catch me on a karaoke stage.
And I've had so many friends who are , we'll watch you, or we'll sit over here. I don't know. I'd get on a plane to
Chicago to come karaoke
Beverly: anytime. Anytime, literally, anytime. But and truly, I will have people who will sit next week. They may not get up and sing on stage, but they'll sing from their chair.
They'll join in community and sing together. They'll go up and they'll dance. And now this collective release is happening where everyone is, it's your classics, spice Girls, all this stuff. People get up and they're singing and they're enjoying and they're releasing. They're releasing together in community, and there's a safety in that to me.
And the third reason why I think karaoke has been. Again, such a healing practice for me. And I do believe for folks who I [00:38:00] have brought into the space ultimately as well is because there is there, I have literally seen people go from the first couple times we go out together, , I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it.
I'm not gonna, and they're watching, they're super grumbly. They're on their front. To weeks later, they're getting up, they're signing up, they're stepping into themselves, they're stepping into their power, they're stepping into, and there's no, , there's no pressure because you may never see these people again.
Yeah. Who care. And that's the beauty of it, is this is an opportunity for you to allow yourself the freedom just for one song. Doesn't matter how silly, it doesn't matter how drunk you are, it doesn't matter, whatever it is. For you to give yourself that power and step on that stage or step in that room or wherever you are.
And the way in which I've seen, I've had, I've brought engineers who are super, super shy. They'll all go up together in a little group and they'll perform. They're like YMCA up. Very much , backstreet Boys , all of it. And then you watch , their faces as the crowd rises and joins with them.
The validation that you showing up authentically as yourself was met with a positive response. So you fought through that fear to do anyway. [00:39:00] To some, it's, oh, it's just karaoke. But to me it has always been a spiritual experience. And I think. It has being able to do that so consistently.
And there were times deep in my process where I was gonna karaokes three times a week because that was the only place I really felt I could creatively express in a container that felt safe and sustainable. But now again, I have so many family members and friends who are like, okay, I guess we're doing Kara, our engagement party was a karaoke.
, literally I love that. Oh my god. It is transcended and I think. It is, to me that is a very real testament over the past six years where I have found, wow, it's been a really tough week. Who wants to go to karaoke? And the response of people going, you know what? Yeah. Yeah. And then the laughter afterwards and the feelings afterwards.
I mean, truly. It is. I now, I, at one point I was a regular at 10 karaoke. So here in Chicago, knowing the owners, everyone, and I think it helps too that I love singing crowd pleasers, so everyone gets up and dancing too. But there's something about when you're having a sad night, even up in the suburbs.
When I lived in the suburbs, [00:40:00] people coming in on a sad night, there's 10 of us in the bar. You know what? That's the vibe. Okay. We're singing Adele and there's a community. We wrap our arms around them. Yeah, for sure. And we just, all right, we're all singing ade. We're gonna honor that person's
sadness.
We're all s sad today. This is such a SAG rising thing to do. I just have to say, this is you embodying and I'm convinced that the at the astrological rising sign of when you're not quite in alignment with who you desire to be, and I. I know how this sounds, but stay with me. For me, it was, I'm a cancer rising and it was all about learning to take care of my home, my body, and that was learning kettlebells.
I had always had this nudge that I was like, I think I'll get up at five in the morning and drive across Seattle and go to this. Russian kettlebell class. I never did it because I was too busy to do it, and I wasn't schlepping across Seattle to do that.
But when I discovered them again a few years ago. I mean, my whole outlook on how I care for myself changes. So for all the powerhouse [00:41:00] women listening to this, I feel and I'd love you to chime in here, Beverly. I feel like it's like trust that nudge of the thing that you really feel drawn to.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess. That it's gonna align with your rising sign astrologically if you're interested. And if you are, hit me up and I'll look up your rising sign if you don't know it or , tell you what it means. But this is where we thwart ourselves. We throttle ourselves so hard to fit in the box that, that creative expression, whatever it looks like, just doesn't, we don't even have the imagination to explore what it could be.
So we just shut ourselves off and decide that we're gonna live as Gumby for the rest of our lives.
Beverly: Yes, it's embracing the duality of passion and purpose. And . One of my dearest friends, she's an engineer, she's a brilliant engineer and she's a brilliant artist. Some of her art is in my house, she's a brilliant artist.
I have friends who are brilliant educators. And they're brilliant singers. You're brilliant. They're, you don't have to choose anymore. I, in 2025, especially for powerhouse women who are listening, I echo everything you're saying, Lauren, because we have been told and fed this lie because it's been what we [00:42:00] had to do to survive, right?
Yes. It wasn't, I wanna give grace to the women who came before us. I wanna give homage and. Respect to my ancestors who did what they had to do to survive because there wasn't an ability to have duality in the times in which my grandmother, my great-grandmother, my mother, that you had to mold and conform otherwise you were not going to get , the opportunities.
And so I think for a lot of us too, I always wanna start there because it is easy now in this era to be like, you gotta move forward and do. I wanna pay homage and respect 'cause I wouldn't be here if it weren't for them and their work. And also now as we move forward, we honor them, we honor ourselves by re recognizing we only are in the boxes that we allow ourselves to be put in.
But removing the cliche of that, what do you do with that? How do you move in action? It is, like you said, finding the karaoke. Finding the kettlebells, finding. I love Lagree. , I recently discovered lagree. It's like Pilates, but a bit more intensive. And for me, it's finding those spaces where you can step into to your truth.
And I love you [00:43:00] talking about the intuition piece because especially as women, we are very good at. Gaslighting ourselves out of our own feelings, turning down our own feelings, shrinking down, minimizing our own experiences because we are in a society where that's where our value is taught.
Shrink yourself. Make yourself small and in action. I think I would ask anyone who's listening, who has felt like they've been stuck in a box and don't even know where to turn, think about when you were a kid. It. What were the things that you felt drawn to that you loved doing? You could sit around and do so for hours and it doesn't even have to be a high stakes thing.
For me it was Sims.
There you
Beverly: go. One way to get me out of my shell when I was exiting he healthcare and coming into FinTech and really restabilizing was I would play Sims on Saturdays for hours. I would do the whole day sometimes to Sims. And you would think in practice like. Really you're, I was mid 20 somethings , you're gonna play.
Yes. Because it was a, when I was a kid, I would sit in the, sit in my parents' house play sims. 'cause it was a, it gave me a [00:44:00] sense of control. I was able to make the little worlds and make little, partners, have the babies make the houses designed. Starting first with what were the things that really allowed you to escape the area you were in and trying it again?
Doesn't matter if you like it or not, but it's acknowledging that kid you knew something, they were onto something. Yeah. 'cause you say we wanna be the astronaut or the actor or the singer and you were the person who was making the Roblox. Yeah. Or you were, the girl who was creating the robots or doing whatever it was you were , doing the makeup with your mom's makeup and you loved it and you felt like time flew.
Maybe playing your makeup today and see how you feel. You know what, I'm not gonna set a timer. I'm just gonna play and that can unlock for you. Not only an area to release, but also a potential area for you to investigate.
Yeah. And
Beverly: explore as an avenue. Not just to excel in, because I think also too, as women, especially powerhouse women who , are you first child?
Oh yeah. Eldest daughter syndrome . Yep. All the things
Beverly: major eldest daughter syndrome and I'm still struggling with this too, of when you do something for fun, just for the sake of the fun, [00:45:00] not so that you can, be an expert at it or make money or do whatever.
Take that pressure off yourself and just try a thing and see if time escapes you. And if it does, that is a signal. If you look up and you're like, wow, four hours went by. Yes. Not scrolling. Actually tactically going into something that can nourish you. And I think the more you do that, the louder that intuition is, right?
And I noticed that for myself too. With karaoke, with my art, I'm picking up instruments again. I'm working on things like my book. Other things I've noticed little by little, my intuition has gotten louder and louder to now I'm working, making more decisions. And this is what I implore. Not only you, Lauren, but anyone listening.
To make continued decisions that are more aligned to the version of you that you could be proud of on that Forbes cover or in that magazine or on that TV screen. Or even if that's not even what you want, if you just want people to leave you the heck alone. Yeah. If you just wanna be to leave you alone, you wanna travel the world and write your books, or don't, or do nothing, whatever that version of you is, that best version, that's who you should honor now.
And by doing so. You'll look up and you'll be her.
[00:46:00] Exactly. And I teach about it as the sense of future me. Yes. As future me is my ultimate guru. She's already done everything that I desire to do. Yes. And there's nobody that's gonna give me the answer more clearly or more understandingly than her.
And so if I use her as my guide, then I can get to the other side.
Beverly: To that point though, there was, there's an activity I'd love to share here that I actually, it actually was very transformative for me. I was scrolling on TikTok earlier this year before anything with my platform took off.
It was really during a period where I was evaluating again. 'cause again, I had 30 and I was like, woo. Everything, all the women in my life had told me about hitting 30. I was like. Whoa. Like I'm really feeling like I'm coming into myself, but who is she and what does she want and what are her passions?
Until
you hit 40 girl, wait. Oh my God.
Beverly: That's what I'm saying. I'm like, and then you hit 40 and I guess it just keeps getting better from here. I'm like, I'm loving it so far. Especially powerhouse women who are listening, who are at the cusp, who are like 27, 20, 29. Ooh, I thought the world was going to end when I turned 30.
It has only gotten better. From here it is only got, spicier [00:47:00] only got better. The best years have come in, but truly I remember, , in January-ish time. I was scrolling on TikTok and this woman, and, , I, I cannot remember her username, but she said, if you are still struggling with some areas of your past and you don't quite know where that's coming up for you, I want you to sit in a quiet room.
And I did this. She said, sit in a quiet room and then I want you to visualize, and I want you to visualize. , A version of you who, is in elementary school, a version of you who's in high school, a version of you who's in college, if you chose college or around that age, a version of you at the beginning of your career.
And then, , to, to your right or left, I want you to have your future. You, and I want you to sit there and I want you to. Have them pretend, visualize that they're all at a conference table and they're all sitting around you. And maybe also envision yourself, in your twenties, thirties, that kind of area depending on where you are in your journey.
And then she said, I want you to ask each of your visualize and ask each version of yourself how are you feeling? Starting first there? How was little you feeling? How was high school you fit? Then ask that each version of [00:48:00] yourself how can I show up better for you? And then finally, ask each version of yourself where do you feel I've still failed you?
And I don't typically give too much into woo exercises on TikTok, but for some reason, and I do believe it's, it was divinely led, I felt called to this exercise and I sat down in the quiet and I had the lights off, and I listened. And I thought there were things that I was like, okay, maybe something from childhood or maybe something from when I was a teen will come up, those kind of things.
I was still surprised that there were betrayals I had experienced during that time. We circling back outta my time in New York when I was looking at that version of me who was disheveled, who had gained, I mean, I had gained over almost a hundred pounds while I was there. I mean, looking at her in that visualization and I just, I, when I got to the question of like, where do you feel I've still failed you.
I just started weeping. I just started weeping looking at her, and I realized, ooh, there's some things I still need to actually work through with myself and answer to and heal from that. I had actually thought I had, I was like, oh, I'm done with that time. I've moved on. I've moved [00:49:00] forward, and so for powerhouse women who are listening to this, I implore you to do that exercise and really sit with yourself and ask each version of yourself, because you'll be surprised.
Again, I was thinking, oh yeah, maybe something from, when I was a kid. No, I, the thing I thought I moved on from there was actually some residual elements there. That really actually mattered, especially in this context, because I was fearing being perceived, and because I was fearing being perceived, I wasn't comfortable posting on TikTok.
I was scared to post videos. And she was like, if you don't heal this. You're not gonna be able to reach the people that you need to reach and the people you're gonna be able to heal and help. And you gotta do that because this is where you're being called to. And doing that on a cycle like once or twice a year, I feel will be incredibly revealing for women who have also experienced trauma.
Have experienced adversity of experienced suppression. Because we're taught, especially as black women, we're taught you, you gotta move twice as fast and move half, half as far, and you suppress and suppress because so many of us don't have time. Or even the energy to look back, and I'm so glad that so many of us are reclaiming that time in this period.
But for any power [00:50:00] powerhouse woman, no matter what your background is, we you're a woman wherever you are. So nine times outta 10, we've experienced some type of trauma in this world. And so sit down and really talk to yourselves, literally
yourselves. Yeah, and I think that, and I know we've been on forever, we could talk all day.
So truly we'll let this be our last little wrap up for this episode, and we'll have you come back on another day. I used to hate, I used to hate the past versions of myself. And I think a lot of us carry that same shame, disappointment. I should have known better. I was so stupid back then.
I was so traumatized back then. Whatever it is, whatever your talk track is. And I can say honestly now, I can see them all very differently, with a lot more compassion, a lot more. Empathy for what they actually were navigating and, when you know better, do better. And that is really gonna take you far from understanding that what you've been through isn't necessarily what you're going.
And that's why I do the work that I do with the subconscious mind because the [00:51:00] way our mind perceives information and processes information is critical to what we're experiencing right now and what we're able to create for ourselves. Moving forward
Beverly: a hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Ah, Beverly, I adore you.
Honestly, I'm gonna move to Chicago. I'm gonna, we're gonna just go karaoking, I just, I have these big plans for us. My husband and I were in Chicago a couple years ago. Oh my gosh. Down on Fifth Avenue and oh my, it was really my first trip I had been. Years ago when I worked in biotech, but Chicago's a great city.
It's amazing.
Beverly: And if you're listening to this in the midst of everything that's happening and surrounding it, do not listen to the rhetoric. I am here in the city. People are coming together. People are celebrating, people are finding joy. They're coming together in unity. It's, there's no city like Chicago, and I'm privileged to be a creator that's based here because there is.
There's a energy of resilience and joy and celebration that I think is going to. [00:52:00] Catalyze ripple effects across, across the country. So when you come here, you will, we'll get you the real Chicago treatment.
Yeah I am down for that. I will definitely be back for that. Thank you so much for all of your delicious time today, your generous time, all of your wisdom.
I'll drop all the information down in the show notes below, but thank you for having me. Yeah. Great to talk to you. . Of course.
